Grounded Podcast 8: Female Training Partners, Creepers, and Posers. Andy Stumpf, Leah Taylor. Jocko.

Grounded Podcast 8: Female Training Partners, Creepers, and Posers. Andy Stumpf, Leah Taylor. Jocko.


this is the grounded podcast number
eight with me I got echo Charles here we got Andy stump here indeed and we got
Leah Taylor here kicking it doing doing uh we’re all in jujitsu
lockdown right now yeah well allegedly kind of alleged allegedly in jujitsu
lockdown is this like back in the day where you
know if you know that your friend is clean then you can go ahead and get
after it if you drive clean – yeah like you’re
clean this girl you met she’s clean well we’re good yeah or whatever the wire is
escaping me right now but what was it back in the day where they abolished
alcohol prohibition prohibition yeah this is kind of like that we have
speakeasies Oh Judy she’s gone underground cuz you can’t roll in the
public you can’t have you can’t have 78 people on the mat just getting their
sweat on okay it’s good that’s a good thing you rolled Majid you with a mask
on no yeah but no it doesn’t help what are you supposed to do okay for someone
that can’t roll right now I saw a little kid on the warrior kid like website did
you see this the kids got a blanket and he like puts the blanket between his
legs like in guard and he makes little arms with the blanket and he starts
working his Comoros right that’s pretty good yeah that’s kind of the way to go
at this point I think people are getting creative I’ve seen some videos of how to
make your own at home training dummy yeah but mostly what I think is
happening is people are meeting up yeah the secret handshake the knock the
location and time jiu-jitsu speakeasies and they’re getting it on that’s what’s
happening I think so cuz your school is your academy club
okay have you been in it since it’s been closed I don’t know if I were to go in
it while it’s closed that would be against the law has anyone here made
legitimate progress ever from watching videos I’m too early I think day into
that but you haven’t watched a video been like oh I see how he’s doing that
I’m gonna do that No yeah I think what its gonna depend
right we’re if it’s like if you see a technique that’s like the answer to
maybe a question that you’ve always had or something or like a a very specific
issue that you’ve always had defensively or whatever and they give you
essentially the answer not necessarily the answer so now you got to practice it
but it’s like something that you already know how to do physically but you know
okay let me do that at that time right there standing with the detail perhaps a
detail yeah whatever like I think it can be like a lot of things yeah yeah yeah
same so to solve a specific problem if you have a certain level of jujitsu I
think it’s harder to pick out yes the bad videos because anyone with a cell
phone can make a jujitsu video that doesn’t make it good so it’s yeah you
have to have a little experience to kind of check I had a situation when I was in
Virginia Beach I was training with Gustavo Machado
Guga sure good nickname yeah good new guy so when I was training there I think
he gave me a like a video tape and VHS yeah like a video tape edit Brown come
on that takes half your carry-on bag right so he gave me like a videotape I
borrowed it for a few days and it was a bunch of like championship matches or
whatever and there was one match I was watching this guy and I wish I could
remember this guy’s name but he was so offensive in his jujitsu like so
attacking that it changed the way I did jujitsu it changed the way I did jujitsu
from one video like I watch probably like three of this guy’s matches and I I
was like oh he’s going for oh yes he oh I was like wait a second I could I could
do that like I could start step maybe not do that but I can move my game in
that direction and that guy was like a he was a black belt this time I was
absolutely eligible did you say belch yeah yeah yeah yeah well that’s a lot of
times you know my Portuguese accent comes out yes when I start talking about
jujitsu my my latent I’m learning a lot about shooting last like four hours before we go deep down they would you
did to rabbit hole I’m the newest person at it at this table obviously I’ve been
at it for about 18 months mm-hmm I have a question for you echo so
I’m behind the curve on a lot of things that have happened in the jiu-jitsu
world obviously and I I was watching a video yesterday but it wasn’t technique
based and your name actually popped up on it and I just wanted maybe some
clarification or explanation of this video okay
it was called G in a game and my question for you is what the fuck man
why didn’t you shut that down at any point in time that you were filming that
Oh rear naked choke Socrates Plato and whatever that dude’s name was he lays
out these people are some deep thinkers and maybe this guy is a deep thinker I
don’t know I don’t know this person at all
yeah but then at the end uh like has the credits or whatever they’re called
popped up I was like Oh Charles you even have some explaining to do yeah so and I
think this came out like ten years ago like I said it came out to me 24 hours
ago I don’t know if that’s good or not no no that was a great production stop
it wasn’t don’t lie actually here in AK we talked about this too because he sent
me essentially the same question right when it came out so but he did say this
he was like hey the video production quality was actually pretty I’ll give
you that but you should have shut it down due to the Conte that’s that what
do you call above my paygrade yeah you were probably on a daily at that point
this is a this is gonna end up being a discussion about taking ownership for
things yeah I sit there and be like well you know hey well that’s not mine
at what point actually realize at what point in that production that did you
realize you’re like oh what’s going on here well you know artistic expression
has many forms you know some of them are in that particular situation I was in no
position to critique judge or evaluate overtly or I could have walked away at
any time here’s what here’s what I thought oh okay this is what I thought
so when it came out I thought oh cool this is gonna be really like right this
is a great idea which I would have thought of this very funny thing right I
wish I felt upset and I live you know you even if there’s a couple there’s a
little while in the beginning where you like oh this is funny right because it
is funny to think about hey no big deal I’m wearing my G I’m going to the
supermarket I’m wearing my G I’m going to the club I’m wearing my G I’m going
to a parent-teacher conference right that that could be very funny right yeah
and then probably I don’t know how long I don’t how many seconds it was into the
video and even as I was watching it for the very first time I was like when is
this gonna what is this gonna get funny like when is this all gonna gonna tie up
and get funny and in the end you seem like you tried to salvage it a little
bit with him trying to go to the club I think you know I think that it was there
was a like percentage of it that was that that was hey this isn’t all like
real serious but I think me are you talking about how a viewer might praise
of people starring and it didn’t have that I’m speaking factually I think I
think but I think if actually I think actually said I think I’m speaking fast
yeah like I know it’s true but I can’t prove that kind of thing um that’s
called the Illuminati yeah yeah no I think he was I think there was an
element of that where it’s like it’s not a hundred percent serious but I think as
a result or at the way it turned out it didn’t come off so maybe the editor
filmer uh yeah my could have been my fault yeah yeah well it was a again it’s
one of those things that we can always reach back to I always kind of hold that
over your head as as bad things could happen yeah but here’s the thing I think
I do feel like I mean whether you like the song and I felt I felt very happy
with the video production bro I still kind of do that thing cuz that was my
job yeah alright it was really the only digits a question I had you know you know it also might be you
know you can’t surround yourself with yes men you know you can’t go through
life well you can’t well you can’t but you
might have that thing that video okay so you ever read YouTube comments on your
on your stuff I stopped recently okay so I’m gonna talk about the reason you
stopped well I’m assuming the reason you stopped so I’ve had you two in general I
would say I don’t read the YouTube comments not even the stuff that I put
out yeah well my point is that I’ve had way worse reactions to my video of it
not like that is like really oh yeah what item so I did this video called
bikini girl lightsaber oh yeah okay so that’s when you were you know this video
is your idea I think it was like the leftovers of an idea that I had actually
it was we were making the podcast I know that oh this is pre potty way too much
Liberty to watch one of the YouTube comments said whoever made this video
should die like hey you know all the G McGee comments or whatever mainly from
chaco now from you thanks by the way yeah um you know those whatever because
he turned off comments real quick oh yeah and took you down and everything
but I just had questions not a soul up apparently well I think if I’m not
mistaken uh does it be inflated cop down but yeah you know people downloading and
redo it and you know do you want to make sure it’s out there oh yeah it’s out
there fully 100% can you look back in like the jujitsu world and there’s
certain things as time goes by where things that were cool at one time become
lame obviously right yeah I’m super stoked that there are no pictures of me
wearing a tinfoil gold affliction t-shirt right because they’re that I
know I didn’t really would I didn’t wear it but but so many people
were wearing that stuff during that peak of whatever and I will say I think I
became Danger Close on a few occasions wearing walkout shirts like walkout
shirts for a fighter that I was cornering where they were getting issued
these like super just what even call that we call those things what this
should like is their name you know the thing with an eagle and a tank and a
explosion and like kind of like one of your videos on the t-shirts I don’t know that those shirts have a
name thank you my coach calls them scary shirts yes something like that I think
yes skulls eagle wings or whatever you did come close play any times with the
throw down situation yeah yeah yeah there was one that was kind of had some
they look like little like little art designs right yeah yeah all over a
throwdown yeah thing but no foil the foil that was like the next Chanukah I
was like the tip top he had the foil usually in the game oh yeah the flick
that’s the other weird things you look back at old UFC’s and the amount of
companies that have come and gone that were just trying to jump on any
including including including with and starting with Tapout you know which the
guys from Tapout were freaking awesome guys and the like the one thing I’ll get
full credit those guys were man back in the day they were we were we would be at
jiu-jitsu tournaments and we would be at king of the cage fights and those guys
would be there when they talked about selling shirts out of the back of their
vehicle I saw that like they were legitimately doing they were totally in
the game so but then but I think that’s the only brand that could say that they
did that everyone else was just trying to capitalize there’s some other legit
brand affliction kind of like maybe got a little hint
like maybe grabbed a little hint there may be style and then was like hey
I like that element let’s take on that yeah and then they went and man now that
landed man that landed hardcore for a while like just that whole style it was
weird to be in Vegas for a fight and there’d be like dudes walking around
with like 350 dollar affliction genes and then like what efficient jeans look
like they had like the shirts man yeah or the dazzled yeah yes yeah no kid like
you’re saying that like you’re thinking you’re you’re my 11 year old daughter
yeah you thinking you’re making a funny comment cuz you’re taking it to an
extreme that wouldn’t really exist it existed before yeah and then there be
you know dude that was whatever he a guy that had spent a bunch of time like
working on his hair you know I like fully photo like yeah yeah you have that
whole thing yeah yeah that is true so there’s things in the digital world
though that you remember wouldn’t remember and how much does it still like
putting patches on your DS of your sponsors yeah that used to be a sign of
like hey guys got a bunch of patches on it just put a bunch of patches on your
gear or this do you know anything yeah mental game first I’m not mad at that to
be honest with you no need say when I was at when we’re at Fabio Santos and
occasionally guys would come in from Brasilia for the accent oh yeah they
from Brazil but but they would be and this is I remember I remember
I wrote I think I actually framed this up myself because if I wanted to
describe who these guys were test someone else I’d say oh these guys are
always like I yeah there’s couple brown belts came in from Brazil from the and I
would say this as if it meant something safe from the competition circuit I’d
say I throw there just to make sure whoever I was talking to fully
understood what I was reckoning with I’d say and just be covered in sponsorship
yeah and then you think you get a whole sure of what you’re doing with yeah as a
blue belt guy yeah well yeah I mean not only does that like indicate that part
of it I think that’s kind of where it started and or as far as the feeling
goes when you see it that with the patches just like yeah that guy
sponsored you must be dope you know you must like win because you know you have
that in your mind and then after a while it sort of just looks cool you know it
gets ingrained in your mind that’s that’s like legit so it just looks cool
now and then um and then yeah as you know more industries more brands came no
just wear my patch you know so you just put patches on your stuff looks cool and
then and then you get the guy like when you get the guy from a fob and he’s
wearing the freshest you know gear direct from whatever company and you
take one look at him and you go oh fob it yeah these are the guys that you
assholes I do I spend that’s what that’s what tactical assholes it’s for those
guys yeah better Aylward it’s a real world in the world I come
from yeah they have all the gear but I bet you can see it in the jiu-jitsu
world too like they might have all this stuff but like that guy moves weird from
a distance like you can tell the guy from the fob who you’re like yeah your
magazines are in backwards and it does cover still on there buddy like yeah
Roger that get the back control assholes is specifically for that only for that
for me to make fun so you could make a jujitsu assholes here’s the thing Jiu
Jitsu has the proof right you have to get on the match right and you have to
be able to you know you have to be able to do the business so the FOB it will or
tactical asshole guy before I’m saying like when he’s just standing there or
walking around or whatever you saying you can sort it you can feel it 100%
yeah so in jujitsu you can’t really do that unless he starts wrong he has to do
something jujitsu like physically like that if you did like some wonky ass
warm-up yeah oh yeah but yeah but if you just walking around he’s coming in
shaking everybody’s hand it’s like you can’t really tell he has a bunch of
patches or no patches it’s like man you can’t really tell but how fast can you
tell once you apply some pressure very fast
right when you’re basically right when you lock up with it how hard does
someone fight to not tap to you when when you see them you’ll watch someone
roll and they’ll like tap but then they’re going with you because you’re a
female and there does not happen at my school it’s not a problem now but if I
go somewhere where I’m traveling you know within SPG there’s not many female
black belt so they’ll kind of know who I am or have an idea but if it’s at a
different school very hard as the answer real hard we have a female black belt
belt here named Marie and number one she’s awesome number two she’s
unassuming about his on a suit well she she’s I guess she could be more
unassuming if she was really small but she said she puts guys to sleep I would
say she probably has put more guys to sleep than any other black belt at this
gym for that very reason guys they just refuse they’re not looking to tap to a
female yeah I’ll tell you about five nine yeah pretty tall I mean I would I
would imagine us enough still though I think guys like with girls or female
partners it’s like they don’t want to do it yeah that’s a reality that’s hard to
accept but now see that’s dumb to me that just reinforces the legitimacy of
what it is Jonas if you switch from a male body to a female body and the
outcome was completely different and they’re doing the same thing like this
is this is dog shit that’s why that’s why jiu-jitsu is awesome yeah I was
lucky because when I started to train each there was no female so that trained
other than like my wife maybe Susie you know Susie kids palenko
his wife okay yeah but yeah there was like no females yeah I don’t say lucky
but I never Desna said why were you looking well it’s lucky for my own ego
to not have to roll with girls when I was or whatever 26 years old big tough
212 pound Navy shield getting tapped out by a female I’ll had the luck of that
not happening to me I was less lucky but in the day and age you were training
there was plenty of men who acted like females so yeah still were there yeah
yeah yeah no it’s that yes it is 100% just my ego was able to luckily get by
that because otherwise you know it’s and now this I will say to your point when
like let’s say someone that’s a lower belt oh you got caught by a purple belt
yeah it’s like yeah Jitsu works I tell it to my I tell it to my training person
like hey judge it works if you do jujitsu right it doesn’t matter if you
put the right move on a black belt and the black belt doesn’t react correctly
you’re gonna tap it you’re gonna tap are you gonna get your unbroken and put to
sleep that’s the beauty yeah there were a few people that quit early on my so I
was not a black belt yet but when I started to be able to hold people down
and remember we were in one practice and uh I held the guy in Mount the whole
round and I didn’t really know many submissions so I just held him down and
we you know we bump fists at the end and he just got up and he got his gym bag in
the middle of open mat and just walked out and we’re like oh hey we’re like
alright yeah yeah he’s like see you later he’s like see ya we never saw him
again that’s when the ego is a destroyer you
know that’s where the egos are destroy because you can’t handle that and you
decide instead of confronting that problem your ego says just avoid it at
all costs and that’s what that guy has to live with your bag and your belt in
the trash can on the way out yeah that’s good though that that happened in that
that happens that’s good because it’s obvious like and people can change for
sure but he’s like therefore completely the wrong reason you know so I think
that how much he’s limiting his potential by making that choice as
opposed to going headlong at that for sure he’s like oh that really bothered
me so maybe I’ll dive into that and figure out what it was instead he’s like
you know this gym bag looks like it fits get in the trash that’s where that’s
what you do to marys or mimics life right if their attitude is everything
that you can’t crush out of the gate or anything that hurts your ego you just
run away from well yeah I think a lot of guys don’t start to especially now that
there’s like the Explorer of an exposure or has been for a while or whatever
they’ll be like oh like like a weightlifter type dude or something
I mean I call them in because I think a lot of the times when we lift weights
and get big muscles it’s like to kind of cover up on the inside like what are you saying you know you go from that you got
a little doing City the weird psyche of echo Charles with it yeah for sure but
cover up Harker nonetheless it like yeah so they’ll they’ll not want to start
they don’t want to go to that to that place of humility you know where they
got to be kind of a for lack of a better term the loser some other end of the
spectrum Leah why wouldn’t every female just be like oh I’m gonna train this so
I can drop from dudes out well it takes a long time so they have that idea when
they start and if they haven’t been an athlete before or they’re smaller just
the the open mats are really hard you know you’re just spending a lot of time
on the bottom you’re getting tapped not necessarily with jiu-jitsu but just size
strength speed they get injured more so it’s a challenging first couple years
you know we have a women’s class to help offset that and I’ll have some ladies
that’ll just roll in women’s class for a while till they learn more of the
structure and survival skills and then they can transition out of that so if
you’re if you’re gonna give advice to a female starting jiu-jitsu what would you
wear are some like pointers you would give them pointers I would say pick your
training partners and open mat so I tell the ladies to try to warm up with a
colored belt to pick training partners within twenty to thirty pounds of them
if possible if they don’t know who’s on the mat to watch one round and you can
see who’s rolling really hard and you don’t have to roll at those people so I
just basically you don’t have to roll with everyone and to advocate for
themselves have five or six people in mind that they want to roll with hit
those people and if someone comes up to them in between that isn’t on that list
or is way out of their weight class and usually what’ll happen is it’ll
a really big new white belt and a female that’s left over because everyone
partners up and no one wants to go with the giant white belt but no one wants to
go with the girl either so you would be surprised how many times that matchup
happens so I tell them you can tell them you want to get a drink tell them coach
Lea said they’re not on your list or you know you can just sit around just tell
them no I’m sorry you know I’m not up to training with you today so I just I tell
them to do that and some of them are confident enough to do that and the
longer they role the more able they are to do that but at first you know I
literally had that talk with a woman she was standing on the side of the mat like
she was just about to jump into a shark pit you know she was so nervous and I
said we’ll just pick your training partners you know and I turned around
and she literally was paired up with the biggest white belt one stripe white belt
in the mat I yelled at him and I said what are you doing that you picked her
and he said oh she looked like she needed a partner I was like you look
like you need a rest I was like you’re gonna play guards the whole time and I’m
gonna look at you like this while we’re rolling and she’s gonna pass your guard
and you’re gonna let her you know have a decent round so it’s just yeah and if
they do pick partners like that they’ll develop a skill set and survival skills
and the mindset to be able to roll bigger people but at first it’s just I
don’t know how much you’re really learning you know with five minutes
straight and cross-eyed bottom remember bottom man that’s a good that’s a good
little tactic right there where you make the instructor like okay if you’re
talking about like if they’re it’s a mixed class right yeah where you as the
instructor can be like hey you know you female or or a group of females or
whatever here’s your list of people here that you can roll in you can be like
that guy that guy and then so they can be like so they don’t have to face that
big rejection situation they don’t have to be like oh I’m not gonna roll with
you you know because some people that even that is kind of intimidating they
always you don’t know and so but they don’t have to do it anymore they can be
like oh I’m sorry like the coach it has a list for me you’re not on the list
sorry you know and it’s way easier that’s a good little tactic I want them
to just stand up and walk to their next partner that would be ideal just get up
and you know upper belts are fine because even if they’re bigger they’ll
control their weight they’ll control their technique so you know once they’re
above like purple belt that’s fine but I’m gonna ask you if you distinguish
between Bluebell yeah because that’s a big job it is the
chances of a purple belt you know going nuts on a on a female or or a new
partner or whatever it’s pretty small chance of a blue belt Wow might get a
little psycho yeah actually for the for the smaller people to roll with you know
hopefully yeah I don’t feel a difference though there’s been plenty of purple
belts who lose their goddamn mind on me I met you rolling with smaller partners
oh yeah everyone tries to remember most people hold you and still six six six
foot purple belt let’s say cuz I’d say this would kind of go into the realm of
maybe more often losing their shit on you as far as purple belts go yeah if
you’re a big athletic Navy SEAL did you that last word that you just used is a
huge problem yeah so and you you’d think like oh yeah that’s just maybe an
occupation where but there’s a certain persona I think generally speaking
whether it applies to you or not but that’s what you are actually so they
when they go in they’re like oh I know this guy’s already tough so I thought
it’d go hard and then when they go hard as we all know it’s like you can’t most
of the time you can’t just go harder and be more effective most of the time so
they’re gonna go hard it’s less effective so now they’re losing their
shit I understand what happens and I get the the Navy SEAL thing we were just
talking about this you know that episode that our accord with Jocko it from one
you’re never gonna put it down but to it people look at it and they may not
necessarily understand that there’s a broad spectrum of individuals inside of
that community good and bad and everything in between but it 100% puts a
target on your back whether or not she wanted I get hit up people hit me up and
say hey man come train in our gym and we’d love to have you I’m like no I’m
not I’m not gonna come and be the bullseye that walks through your gym
yeah you’re like oh yeah we’re gonna have a Navy SEAL come in like yeah yeah
I’m not a Navy SEAL anymore but out for six years I didn’t do any jujitsu while
I was in the color of my belt that’s the KO of the belt that I have I don’t have
a fucking Harry Potter wand that allows me to like do anything special and yeah
yeah that’s the truth but in there my you do so when yeah when you come in
like think about it any any little thing when you get introduced like then
wherever I don’t Callum entry school whatever they’re gonna say baby seal and
everyone’s gonna be like maybe seal so that’s just full disclosure if they come
at me hard I will also go back at them hard so it’s equal to my board no ya
don’t have that sandwich as well yeah in a way though like I think as a white
belt Navy SEAL or not I think it’s kinda the upper belt streets if in fact we’re
trying to avoid that kind of situation for like a brute we’re it’s uh it’s more
up to the upper belt I think cuz he has more capability of controlling I think
well I think I’m gonna take some ownership off your plate on that one any
weird house I’m just saying when it accelerates I’m like alright I’ll dump
it into fifth gear to talks about leaving your ego at the door is so much
of it revolves around you going and you know I give the same advice that you
give Lia to females I give to like you know a 56 year old guy that wants to
start you Jitsu you should absolutely start jujitsu it will be awesome you
need to pick your right training partners you need to put your ego in
check to say no to people I’m horrible about that like I’ll have a injury right
and I’ll be like I’m just gonna train with Annie and echo today cuz those guys
know that if they get whatever like if I go hey stop you know then they’ll be
like all cool that doesn’t mean that they won or not gonna jump up and
celebrate where but then some guy that you know of good but not quite as good
maybe super strong and they’ll be ok you want to roll and I’ll be like yep the
back of my head I’m like God you just you’re stupid and I’ve gotten bit by
that a couple times where I’ve gone with guys that up like you know had a little
tweak injury and then I go with someone and you know someone that’s good
athletes strong you know decently decent level of skill and I know I shouldn’t be
training with them because I know you know I’ll come in the Gymkhana hems
gonna go just kind of kind of mellow roll today and look I can have I can
have crazy I can have quote mellow rolls that last one hour with Dean or Andy or
echo that are total like no one on the outside would
be able to look at it and go like all that you know that they’re kind of just
there kind of just cruising a little bit but for both me and them they know like
oh yeah we were just cruising that’s nobody you can’t see the pressure see
the pressure but you know someone’s ads on the sidelines watch and goes looks
like jock was getting after it today okay let’s go yeah and what that guy’s
thinking is today’s the day if you have a target on your back at all times yeah
yeah so today’s the day and they’re gonna dive for something that’s the
other thing is they can dive for some move the low totally low percentage move
and if they don’t get it cool they lost a jock oh no big deal if they get it bro
Hail Mary Hail Mary on some move they’re gonna crank it yeah they’re gonna crank
it and you know what when you guess what I should do
crank it back freezes time yeah that’s what I should you know Abby I knew for a
quarter-century somebody gets me caught in some move I should be that cool tap
but what do I do yeah I even do that when I’m so is that
the ego that prevents your hundred percent so let me ask you this because
this is an interesting thing I’ve been thinking about you they say that jujitsu
is very humbling and it’s strips that you go away but as you advance in it I
feel that some of the higher belts will develop the ego back again yeah and you
got to be very careful of that and where I see that manifests itself most clearly
is when people don’t want a role right that’s the most that yeah the most clear
manifest manifestation of that to me is is for me if I go in and one of the pipe
hit and younger guys that’s really good says hey you want to roll and I go oh
you know not today you know if I had that happened the other day with Wes and
you know I just got done with a bunch of rounds and Wes is like hey you want a
roll and I’m like not really and he’s like oh okay and then like 10 seconds
passed I was like bro let’s go yeah I mean like I know this is gonna be a
crappy round for me but you know whatever yeah and it’s not like wes’s I
mean Wes is a black and he’s a beast you know and I was just
like oh that’s my ego talking saying oh you know you don’t want to have a tough
around you don’t want to get tapped out by Wes so I’ll just sit here on the
sidelines that’s where you go that’s one shade of ego or just responding poorly
if things don’t go their way yeah yeah whereas it’s like you know you were
talking about if there was a list in here of people who had tapped with the
checkmark next to it every single time like you’d have more than everybody I’m
aware that’s okay right like I mean to advance in the sport you’d have to
continue and learn those lessons from that tap yeah but I think the ego
especially when there’s a difference between the color of the belts oh yeah
or on how dumb is an expected that doesn’t go that particular direction
yeah everyone like pretty my I would say 99 it’s closer to a hundred percent of
people than it is 99 percent of people won’t like when a lower belt taps them
out if they’re really going you know like if we’re really training and
whatever in the lower belts tops a mom or a rival that you have that’s the same
belt as you that you always get or you’ve always got in you know so and
then they get you for the first time or whatever you in the second time really
um everyone no one likes that like everyone that’s a thing for everyone in
their mind now how they physically like reason is that so oh yeah how they
behave after that that’s gonna reveal like how much unhealthy ego they have
here’s some great advice from Jeff Higgs on this topic and he told me this a long
time ago if you tap out someone that you don’t normally tap out when you when you
shake hands and go again like right then you better be ready for them they’re
gonna come after you like up like us like just a savage
oh yeah that’s what’s gonna happen oh yeah and that in think about it that’s
true for like have you ever had that happen to you where a guy comes after me
yeah oh yeah okay so here’s the question house have you ever done that to
somebody else for me got you I’m sure I how he was like all
thinking like oh let me think every single time so that’s this house and I’m
speaking from experience to where someone would that get me and I’m like
brah because that is hundred percent true
like where where if you can it we all want so you thought you got me huh here
oh yeah that’s what I’m doing this to you
well I’ve never tell you get a good move on me or something or you get an
offensive move and then I go no I it’s more I don’t believe that hesitation I
think we all know that like if I don’t know Andy or something like this you’re
gonna bring it right after cuz just we know your personality this Andy’s a bad
example cuz we go back and forth you know what I mean there’s no there’s no
yeah now but then what clarity story should say that the end of you’re
talking about is not sitting just so nobody is yeah we are not talking about
me yeah no I of course of course 21st I guess I I guess we’ll go no hesitation
of course if someone gets me I’m gonna step it is someone that I if it’s
someone that I haven’t although I don’t know
I’ve had people tapped me out where I’ve been like okay that was nice man yeah
that was nice there’s a nice move yeah to say I don’t believe that and you
know maybe not be true so I get maybe you know but I don’t know I don’t know
well I’ll tell you who does that is Dean Lister what oh if you get if you get him
yeah well there’s two ways he reacts so one is like he’ll just be like whatever
and kind of blow it off and he’s having a bad day and he just he just kind of
survives the rest of the time and then like leaves yeah but if it’s not that
kind of day and I catch them in something but I’m about to just not only
just I’m not only am I gonna get tapped out I’m gonna get I’m gonna get punished
capital child yeah I’m talking I’m talking things you wouldn’t if you you
would if you saw Dean beating me up yeah like if you were like okay if you if you
came to the gym and you happen to catch let’s say I just caught Dean and then he
was one of those days where he who wasn’t having that
you would be watching thinking that it was not true you’d be watching it going
like this could this isn’t why doesn’t Jacque or do something what’s wrong with
him like what’s his problem why is he why is
he playing around like this and the reality is I can’t do anything as a
human that’s 230 pounds that’s been trained trained jiu-jitsu for 25 years I
can’t do anything I can’t are you trying everything I can I can’t do anything
that’s that’s that’s an awful awful awful thing yeah yeah yes I mean we’re
talking when he’s belittling me like making fun of me like slapping me around
and and and and belittling me and I can’t do anything about it that’s I have
a question leo and I asked this because when I think about like my wife or when
my daughter kind of grows up where if in the event of them training with other
other men because there’s a lot of types of people that come in and train
jiu-jitsu and not even a skill aside just types of individuals do you get
weirdos ever are you talking like perverts yeah like it just yeah Morgan
took that from Theo von to know but yeah yeah and I mean or whatever just someone
like weird like hey your weirdness is going outside of the acceptable Jiu
Jitsu kind of context you know very very occasionally I that goes more to mat
culture so it’s again the the coach or the leader in the gym has to police the
mat and be willing to correct those people or throw them out of the gym and
there are your training partners in the mat will do that as well you know but
you also have to be willing to say something and I’ve had women have really
really really bad roles and then they don’t tell me or they’ll quit you know
they’ll tell me six months later you know I didn’t go to open mat for six
months and all kind of coax them back onto the mat and they’ll be they’ll tell
me they had a really bad role with someone what do you mean a bad role a
role where maybe the person didn’t try to submit them but just held them down
in a way that was made them feel really out of control didn’t didn’t work to
improve the position and just kind of laid on them in a
creepy way kind of mountaintop yeah yeah just just kind of okay what do you what
are we doing here like are we just gonna lay on each other for three minutes I’m
just gonna look at it when you started you Jitsu how long did it take you to
get through or over or around the close body contact with sweaty dudes I had
done a bunch of traditional martial arts before so I had done a little bit of
contact I’d done some throwing you know I keyed Jitsu and so I’d done a little
bit of the contact and then so taking that next step it was it was a little
bit weird at first for sure but I was the only girl you know at my Academy for
quite a while the first time I rolled with another female was at a competition I mean but that was how everyone was you
know they’re people think oh if you’re you train with men all the time I said
well that girl does to believe me you know there’s not especially you know
what the black belt level it’s like they all they all train with guys have you
ever had a specific experience with like someone who’s creepy um I’ve had people
get a little bit fixated you know as I’ve been of Coach that’s happened a
time or two yeah yeah just wanting to train with me specifically more than
they should you know I’ve seen men specifically choose only female partners
though so it’ll be that’ll get you kicked right out of me a minority on the
merit and they’re only partnering with women and you know so that was something
that would happen or just trying to message me you know over Facebook oh
yeah what’s starting to creep me out is echo just keep asking these questions
about this oh yeah yeah I got I got three daughters and you know two of them
are older now but for sure they kind of grew up with jiu-jitsu you know so they
never had to enter into the jiu-jitsu world like cold turkey that’s why that’s
why I asked you about it because I know a lot of females I mean you show up if
you show up for a first jujitsu classroom you don’t know what to expect
this is a freaking hole that you’re not ready for this
you just do it like really like personal space barriers and boundaries your first
class is a nightmare yeah that’s especially if there’s guys
involved for girls that’s 100% different if then if it’s like mixed or all guys
have that idea of all female classes especially for beginners cuz after a
while they don’t care anymore you know after a while they don’t there
should be about one a week I mean the other thing that’ll happen is you’ll get
women wanting to Train because they’ve had some trauma you know they’ve been
assaulted and for them to partner with a guy is just not gonna happen
and so jiu-jitsu becomes unaccessible to them so I’ve had some women you know and
they’ll have a panic attack on the mat you know and sometimes it’s not
appropriate for them to do jujitsu first they need to go through some trauma
counselling but I’ve had other women that if they’re partnered with women or
they’re training with women at first they can overcome that and kind of work
out of it yeah I was gonna say we’ve had some females that have done just that
you know the first thing was like hey look I’m not getting on the mat if
there’s men on the mat yeah no it’s not happening and then over time it’s like
they’re rolling with men because they realize but it takes it takes some time
it takes some getting used to if you were gonna take a ten-year-old girl I
think actually 10 year olds too young 10 year old girls they don’t have the
they’re gonna be fine rolling with boys no factor no 30 or 40 yeah it’s 13 14
where you start how would you how would you introduce a 13 14 year-old girl is
it hey let’s find a female let’s find a place that has female classes only well
i coach actually most of the teens and kids at our academy which is straight
last gym autumn I can’t Montana and we have kids classes for ages 3 up through
16 and my teen class I have about 40 kids in there and a good portion of them
are our girls so it’s awkward at first but they’re all kind of awkward you know
at that age they’re just all sort of uncomfortable so we partner them with
other females in the class if we can and try to partner them with you know kids
who’ve been there a little bit longer just so it’s it’s they can work through
it quickly you know we give them time to socialize so they can kind of make
friends do you put him in a gear mediately yes I’ll tell you that might
sound like a not a big deal but like when it comes to wrestling
and you know you’re in a singlet and you know you’re 13 14 year-old girl said
nightmare it’s it’s yeah the guy I think is a good place to start with young
female sure they’re all geek classes and I do have some women that don’t like to
roll without the key for that reason wait for one reason just it’s another
layer yeah yeah a little too close contact if they feel kind of exposed or
uncomfortable it’s too much body to body contact yeah yeah the end part of the
reason I asked too is that as a guy who’s like into jujitsu we don’t think
about that very often like because no one’s gonna be creepy to me unless they
are they got to be really creepy for me to even notice you know but like murid
would tell me about stuff that happened at other places or whatever and they
have like nicknames for certain guys like oh he’s whatever and he’s and they
have nicknames for these creepy guys so why do those creepy guys why are they
allowed to stay i I don’t know because at some point right so and again
everything that I say about jujitsu put it through the lens of 18 months of
experience but what you’re about to say is correct if there’s a creeper in the
gym your weaponizing their creeper mentality because it’s just like any
other tool this ridiculously large butter knife for example could be used
to cut butter or it could used a lot well you can really lop somebody’s head
off with that you’d have to use the back sewing side of this but that’s a
different podcast yes sir some greater evil some of them are really subtle
about when they do that sir they’re very careful about who’s on the mat but if
they have been talking about the females the men the creeper Mary permit the guys
who are yeah who are have bad intentions though wait until there’s a coach maybe
not directly on the matter directly watching them they’ll do things you know
in transitions to and from locker rooms or in parking lots you know and this
isn’t stuff that necessarily happens at our school but you’ll see on women’s
Facebook’s or forums that they’ve had to leave a school because sometimes the
student that’s harassing them has been there a long time and they have a lot of
social credibility and they’re not treating the men obviously the same way
that they would treat the women and so sometimes the guys won’t think it’s a
big deal or they just don’t want to believe that that person would do that
and especially if the females newer it just becomes a
he said she said things so it just goes back to Matt culture you know what do
you allow at your academy you know how do you allow people to talk to the women
there do you have a women’s class do you have a children’s class usually that
stuff isn’t gonna fly there you know if you walk in it’s just only dudes only 20
year old dudes rolling on a mat then you know there’s a reason for that
so Annie were you gonna say that teaching these creepers jiu-jitsu is
it’s a tool right it’s weaponizing you’re not even that guy a skill that he
shouldn’t have well and so my understanding of digits at this point
right it’s you’re you’re learning how to control another human professor if you
empower somebody who wants to control them for an other than honorable reason
are you not increasing their capabilities yeah absolutely yeah but
but that’s a lot more rare that happens for sure yeah where that’s kind of their
goal you know whatever to be like I’m gonna impose myself like on that level
that’s what we’ll call that level 10 right that’s way more rare than this the
spectrum or this certain side of the spectrum of the subtlety so in it we’ll
just say on one side of spectrum there’s like super subtle just like maybe the
guy giggles more with the girl when he rolls something inappropriate
not even that yet if you go that’s a level 11 and here’s why I say the giggle
because I rolled like I never really roll with girls just by happenstance but
so I roll with his girl night you know she was there for jujitsu she wasn’t
there to hook up she wasn’t there to flirt shoes are for but she would giggle
like I’ll let you know one like something you know she just kind of
giggle in the transitions and I remember thinking this is wildly inappropriate to
be giggling at me right now like this you know it really threw me off so that
sort of made me narrow sometimes laughs and you roll but here’s the problem
you’re good you’re about she’s laughing at you out done
like whatever she was loading up is about the doors about to close on that
yeah and yeah you’re good it does that to you
read the one black girl she’ll giggle – like when but but if you have a name
what if you have a nickname which is probably through repetitive behavior
that level is that yes yeah so you know you’re talking down the spectrum but
before you get there where you have a nickname
yes to me in my opinion anyway I don’t know these people with the end course or
whatever but um when you’re at that level oh yeah you should have been out
of the gym long time ago but there’s many different levels to that and then
so it’s like where do you start saying hey do you tell the guy hate don’t
giggle that’s inappropriate and make him feel like he’s some like predator or
something when it’s like dang bro I was like I didn’t realize I was doing it you
know he had no Intendant so it’s it’s hard to sort of get that spot on on the
spectrum and then make us you know take a stand at that put at an appropriate
point because you don’t know where in fact that is and then you get the fact
that some most guys I think anyway maybe I’m Navy I don’t know but most guys
don’t realize they’re doing it they think like oh maybe this girl likes me
or whatever well maybe I’m gonna give this girl a
compliment you know or something like that and then they say then the girls
like oh this guy’s giving me like compliments on my eyes or something like
that and he’s thinking that he’s doing the right thing you know fantastic guys
by the way that’s good eyebrows to go into there’s a lot of like creepy things
that guys can do like if you look in someone’s eyes while you roll with them
but seems weird oh I don’t think I don’t play any of these games I will take
every advantage that I can possible I mean why can’t you lick somebody during
the role I guarantee you you’ll get out of whatever position you’re in that’s
level two that’s level ten hey it works yeah thank you back with that subtlety
it’s kind of like man it’s it’s kind of a weird kind of scenario because
especially when you get guys who don’t realize they’re doing it fully or they
think that it’s not that big of a deal genuinely don’t think of it or think
it’s that big of a deal you know so I think like is to
acknowledge it and openly and honestly have a discussion with that person
possible you don’t need to do that or whatever hey I’m not wrong do you
because the way you just did that you know what’s really sad about this is
like okay I got I got daughters you know three daughters and one son and
obviously I’ve thought about it at particular moments of their grappling
careers if as it were but like girls and females are just dealing with this all
basically all the time you know like like you’re basically like this never
comes up right does never cover echo and I never ever say like have you
hold with bill he’s kind of creepy you know I’ve never I might say bill stinks
or bill whatever but you’re not saying like hey has he ever like you know kind
of made some adjustments in your guard and like no that never had that
conversation and I remember seeing a some kind of some kind of documentary or
something about being a female and they were going around asking like when’s
they asked a bunch of men when’s the last time you were scared never and the
guys like well you know like six years ago my car broke down and there was a
gang fight going on and there was rounds flying overhead and I ran for cover but
the rounds were impacting right next me I was pretty I was sweating that and
then you know then asked the next guy and he’s like oh there was a bank
robbery and you know that’s what a guy thinks and then they asked a female like
when’s last time you’re scared they’re like Oh Tuesday night I had to walk to
the car Thursday night I had to you know okay and you’re like wow yeah it’s it’s
a different reality it is ya know it is and I think what you can do is learn to
protect yourself the best you can you know I’m learning to shoot now too so
I’m working on that you know we have a black belt that was a long time police
officer and he’s just like learned how to fight at every range learn how to use
weapons you know make yourself really difficult to kill yeah that’s and that’s
where I was going where this is like – for someone because I’m sitting here
thinking man if I was a female I’m listening this I’m thinking you know
part of you thinking oh I’m never going to go do jujitsu if this is what it’s
like but that’s the absolute wrong answer that we already talked about like
the answer is no you go you train you learn this look you have to give that
warning that there’s gonna be perverts out there the vast majority of people
you’re totally good to go it’s totally not the norm I’d say don’t let the
anomaly paint your experience so like I said it matters when you walk in if you
see a kid’s class if you see women if you see female coaches you know it’s
gonna be fine when I went up when I walked in my coach’s wife was there and
she’s a brown belt now and so it was just I asked him cuz I was a little bit
worried I said is this is it okay that I’m female you know you only have five
or six guys on the mat you know they’re all rolling no Aggie I’m like is it
alright if I train here and he said yeah why wouldn’t it be what do you mean yeah
that’s the disconnect right guys yeah of course so he had his wife take me aside
and I said well is it am I gonna get beat up you know do they not want
girls here and she said no why why would you think no it’s gonna be fine no it’ll
be fine then I was like okay so I got on the mat and you at that point you just
you roll the first day you come in now we have a beginner program you know it
kind of easy on in but they’re like you just get on the mat and wrestle so yeah
it was he just kept a really good culture and
all the guys you know I had tough roles but I never was afraid I was gonna get
hurt nobody was inappropriate or creepy or anything like that you know I had I
had a really good experience coming up I mean it was physically challenging was
mentally challenging but it wasn’t I didn’t ever feel unsafe they became some
of my really good friends I mean some of us that started together still work at
the same Academy under my coach you know their black belts now it’s so they’re
you know there’s some of my closest friends yeah the other thing that comes
up is well what this stuff really work for a female like a small female in a
you know going against a meth-head that’s 240 pounds or whatever and my
answer is always well if there’s two things two parts us how long does it
take to learn this stuff right well my answer that is when when are you gonna
get attacked right sure if you start jiu-jitsu on Monday and you get attacked
on Wednesday it’s not gonna be a lot of good but be better than nothing but the
bottom line is you know that I used to say this in the SEAL Teams when they
were pushing all these weird like martial arts things and one of the
reasons behind using these weird martial they’re like well you can teach this in
a week and I’m like hey first of all you can’t teach very much about fighting in
a week and second of all you’re in the teams for twenty years you got time
let’s learn something useful that’s part number one and part number two is look a
hundred and ten pound purple belt in jujitsu female against a two hundred and
forty five pound psycho meth head he’s gonna win and and now look if he knows
absolutely nothing sure but you gotta you gotta figure he’s gonna be able to
overpower her that being said and this is why I say you start training and you
never stop that that guy it might take him if she doesn’t know anything he can
have her pulled away in a van in three seconds if she knows jujitsu it’s a
two-minute fight and in that two-minute fight the cops come people get the
license all these things happen you delay that for long enough and most of
these scumbag the last thing they want to do is have
to get into a fight and so that right there the other thing is if you’ve never
been grabbed before if you don’t know what that feels like you can’t even get
through that shock you won’t even make you won’t even react in any way
whatsoever when someone grabs you when you do jujitsu that’s every day and
you’ll know immediately you’ll see openings you’ll be able to do things so
you can forestall something really bad happening and that’s why I think even a
110 pound purple belt against a 245-pound psychopath that guy’s gonna
pick another victim after about 14 seconds of like wait a second what just
you know all these things are happening really quick and then you add in you
know you see the cheesy videos of like well I’ll do this I strike and that’ll
stop the attacker and and you go oh that anybody that knows anything is about
fighting knows that hey if I do an eye poke on you it’s not gonna end the fight
because for a small time but if you’re in a real situation and you take a bite
out of someone’s cheek or its bite off their nose like I had a friend that bit
off a guy’s nose and it was like you don’t think about it but it’s in kind of
a fight ender like you know how as a boss moves it’s a it’s a Power Move and
so now you put yourself into a situation you know Dean used to say this Dean used
to be like hey if I know jiff I’m a black belt in jujitsu or a purple belt
in jujitsu and you decide you’re gonna bite my cheek well then I’m just gonna
punish you for it cuz that’s the only thing that you’re you did we talked
about this before we had a guy Igor who’s a team guy and he was in a street
fight and got his ear bent off not off completely but a legitimate bite was
taken out of his ear mike tyson’s yeah look bigger than a Mike Tyson yeah
actually there’s a pretty big party tonight
yeah and he uh and like the guy bit his ear and then he was you know the guy
that bid it the guy that bit Igor’s ear was on the bottom paying for Igor was
and so he’s always been across side and like that that ear bite didn’t help
anything but if you’ve reversed those roles like if you know jiu-jitsu and
then you start adding in biting off people’s noses or whatever it can be
effective in making a assault that would take three seconds for a
245-pound guy to get a hold of an take up girl and put her into a car whatever
can turn that into number one of scrap number two like a two minute evolution
and number three a possibility that this guy just says hey dude I’m not putting
up with this right now this is what I this is what I signed up for I teach a
lot of women’s self-defense programs and the first thing we walk on is actually
or work on is actually just teaching them to walk how they carry themselves
their body language it has a lot to do with victim selection and once you learn
how to grapple or if you’re an athlete you tend to carry yourself differently
and you are far less likely to be selected as a victim so we literally
just work on posture and eye contact and how are you sitting who are you’re
surrounding yourself with so just avoiding those bad situations before you
get into it and then we do a grappling based self-defense program where it’s
just escape and you have to be able to run at that point you have to be able to
be in good enough shape to fight as hard as you can to get out know a little bit
of technique and then you have to be able to run so if you’re not healthy
that’s going to be really challenging so you know we teach you have to take care
of yourself you have to take care of your body even if you’re not going to
become a grappler or a fighter you need to be strong so we really instill a lot
of that at the beginning yeah that’s awesome well it’s been an hour we’re
usually trying to do these things for an hour and not six hours or five and a
half hours Andi mmm Thanks yeah thank you
Leah thank you thank you Eko you look whatever this is if you want to support
this podcast then go to Joe Coast or calm or go to origin main comm and other
than that stay grounded

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