Grounded Podcast #4 w/ Dave Berke and Echo Charles: Are you Prepared? Can you Adapt?

Grounded Podcast #4 w/ Dave Berke and Echo Charles: Are you Prepared? Can you Adapt?


this is the grounded podcast episode 4
with echo Charles Dave Burke and me Jaco willing you were saying echo how’s
it you were saying something and I said just stop press record and then complete
your point okay that’s the whole purpose of this yeah yeah that was good good
reminder there yeah okay so Dave Burke was talking about how he
was he wasn’t I’m gonna put it in different words but you were saying like
a jujitsu was never it was separate from your identity essentially like that’s
not for me I’m not a martial artist you know that’s not who I am whatever which
is most of us by the way maybe not you but so not just separate from his
identity I think I think what you’re trying to say is you know what a Venn
diagram is right yeah like in Dave’s world
there was zero overlap between jiu-jitsu and Dave Burke’s life yes
and then there was when all of a sudden you came national on front you started
listening to the podcast and all of a sudden there was like a little bit of a
there wasn’t there was at least contact you’re like okay I get that there’s a
world over there but I’m not really yeah that’s not that’s not really there’s no
overlap if they’re touching I get it there’s a thing but it’s not really my
thing yeah but I mean it’s fine because I can
I can be in my world and that world can exist and I’m not I’m not mad at it yeah
that’s what I meant okay yeah Shaq so and in a way it is kind of
and I don’t mean like the rigid meaning of identity I mean like that’s you know
cuz a lot of people say that there be like I’m not like a I’m not a fighter
you know I’m not a fight that’s them talking about their identity you know
they’d like define themselves or whatever so it feels like that’s kind of
what your your feeling at the time but and here’s the other part that is true
for so many people where I was with you by the way I’m not a martial artist I
mean I’ve taken jutsu before but I’m not anyway so a lot of other people as well
think hey I’m not that into it but hey everyone’s talked
thinking about everyone around me is talking about it that’s what my bros are
doing you know all at least her I don’t want to be the guy on my circles not
doing it and that a lot of people do that too totally totally do that like
you ever seen somebody who like I don’t know starts like real estate or
something because like that’s what everyone’s doing in their little circle
breath for real and so it’s the same deal like there there are a lot of
people who think like how you how you thought like beginning really going in
and like consider yourself back before you even started Jutes what it couldn’t
consider how you were and what you were thinking at that time there are still
people who are thinking that and somewhere in in that spectrum if you
consider the spectrum of you know I’m not gonna do jiu-jitsu hey I like jockle
and I know who Jocko is I said I understand what he’s saying and and I
like it I dig it but that jiu-jitsu part that’s mainly for him because he’s like
that and whoever else does it they’re like that I get it that’s one part of
the spectrum all the way down to straight-up the guy who’s in the game
who has a purple belt now because of their exposure to jiu-jitsu through Jaco
Brahm I mean shoot how long has it been four years 15 three is oh yeah three and
so yeah yeah maybe like a purple belt situation so if that’s the spectrum
there’s probably like a lot of people who are in on that spectrum somewhere
somewhere even like I said where you were back in the day that’s interesting
there’s gonna be people that come up in a few years that are like hey I got my
black belt I started jujitsu from the podcast and
what made me think of that I go to wrestling tournaments you know with my
kids and I’ve had kids come up to me and say hey I started wrestling I started
you Jitsu and now I’m wrestling because of the warrior kid books that’s like
been one of the coolest things ever kids just shit where it away but you know
warrior kid books are three years old so someone that was 11 and read the warrior
kid book all of a sudden he starts jujitsu he gets into high school at 13
or 14 boom there oh they have wrestling I’m gonna go do that and next thing you
know you got a kid wrestling and that’s a that’s a huge step forward in life
yeah big time hey do you ever get like um like what do
you call like a performance anxiety or anything like that like going in because
you know how there’s like two elements to training um there’s more than two I
get it but as far as what I’m talking about here it’s like the learning aspect
and then the performance acts aspect you know so a lot of times like when you
know at higher levels the performance aspect starts to be pretty significant
because of the identity like oh I’m a brown belt now I’m a black belt now I
got to represent with my performance every single day kind of thing so if I
go into experimental mode and I get tapped out in front of all my students
it’s kind of like dang they’re gonna think less of me and you know and you go
down this kind of spiral that that might induce some sort of performance like
pressure will say and then on the flip side if you’re in let’s say I’m gonna
see commonly speaking if you’re a lower belt or whatever you’ll get less of that
because like kind of like how you’re saying earlier it there’s less really
expected of you you’re in straight up 100% learning mode really you know but
are you to the point or have you ever been to the point where you get like
kind of like you feel pressure on yourself and you do well in training I I
do yeah when we roll alive at the end of training I I feel that I feel at most
believe it or not I feel at most with people who are have trained but trained
less than me yeah I don’t feel it I’d certainly don’t feel it when I’m wrong
with purple belts you know when I train with the coaches and 1/0 experts the
item there’s none of that you know I you know I want to do well I want to I want
to demonstrate that I’m paying attention to learning but I don’t have any of that
feeling when I train with dudes that I’ve rolled with that are less
experienced with me but they have but they have trained that’s right fuel at
the most without a doubt you know what’s interesting about this so having that
mentality of a white belt right which is I’m a white belt I have nothing to prove
that is the best way to learn the most amount the quickest now if you can take
that and you can apply that to other aspects of your life if you can instead
of sitting in a meeting or sitting in a at a school environment or sitting in a
seminar of some kind and instead of thinking well on this i’m i already know
this or I’m here to prove myself that’s the
worst and slowest way to learn as opposed to hey I’m open-minded I don’t
have high expectations somebody presenting something to me that I may or
may not know about and what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna listen I’m gonna relax I’m
gonna try and put my ego aside and I’m gonna try and learn something here like
having that attitude in life is so absolutely beneficial in a multitude of
ways in just about everything that you are trying to get better at the you know
who’s a really cool example of just having a white bent mountain town white
belt mentality even our high levels Jeff Glover Jeff Jeff I’m not saying he
doesn’t mind getting tapped out because of course you know he’s a black belt and
he has pride right but he is a guy that does not he does he’s not protecting
himself at all from oh I’ll roll with you oh I’m exhausted I’ll roll with you
oh I’ll put myself in a bad position he would let people start with you know we
were talking on the last jaco podcast about starting in a rear naked choke and
how you’re screwed yeah Jeff Glover no no go ahead and start in a rear naked
choke like let me get one let me get two of my fingers on your wrist and that’s
where we’ll start you know and and you know what if you tap him out he’s like
okay cool or if you do move to him where you catch him he’s and and I’m not
talking about me well I’m talking about cuz you know I’m another black belt at
least it I’m also 500 pounds heavier than him but yeah but Jeff he rolls with
people and just doesn’t care he has a great white man belt mentality from a
guy that’s a world champion by the way and who you know we talked a lot about
creativity when we were talking about the Marine Corps tactics manual Jeff is
one of those guys his creativity level is his is at the maximum level that a
creativity could be in a jiu jitsu spectrum yeah
you agree and man I know that firsthand when he was straightening here he rolled
with him one time and he you know like okay Sookie Moore is one is he called it
I don’t think he called it he might have called it but people call the Camorra
like a big guy move you know like if you’re a big guy he more is gonna be
more effective for you whatever so I’m rolling with him and I’m big a lot
bigger than him too he goes and were rolling whatever he puts his hand behind
his back like Oh in a Kimura like position like somewhere okay all right
you know just clear give me the Kimura so I was like okay and I learned early
on from Dean where that can be like a bluff you know when he’ll be like oh yo
take it cuz he’s hoping you won’t take it you know that’s like a move that
those high-level creative guys do sometimes double reverse psychology yeah
exactly right so I know that so I’m like whatever so so I go for it and like
already sunk in essentially and what he does he gets his other hand here it goes
Brett just grabbed his hand so I’m like and I’m trying to do it but I’m like
wait do I just muscle it cuz kinda thinking to myself I didn’t muscle it
and but I’m thinking to myself not like I could’ve I’m not saying it it would
have worked he might have knew exactly what he was
doing I don’t know I but I I’m thinking I could have tried to muscle it though
but then I’m thinking wait what does it take to have in your mind to just let me
do that to you yeah you know like if what if I muscled didn’t got it ya know
he’s putting himself at risk and you were probably a purple belt at the time
I was a brown belt at the time yeah so and that’s another thing it’s not like
he did it to the new white belt guy who you know exactly what it’s doing this
like you get a guy who’s good at Combe or he might blast through that little
grip yeah and he totally did it I didn’t finish it did not finish the kymaro and
um he’s huge saying afterwards I forget if it was like to me or to like us or
whatever he was like yeah sometimes like you have to experiment with things and
sometimes you’ll get you’ll get pinned in certain positions or whatever and you
and I remember later and he said he’s like yeah I might give it to you it’s
like but you have to be creative creative enough to finish it as well
yeah I was like man it was absolutely true and he totally just demonstrated it
it’s not like a guy who says it it doesn’t do it you know I’m a sure
really I’m really susceptible myself to doing what I know in jiu-jitsu I’m very
susceptible to doing what I know in jiu-jitsu and I am less susceptible in
life to doing what I know but I’m still susceptible I’m still susceptible to
just going with what I know going with what I’m good at
I guess everyone is that way of things but it’s something that I I have to be
consciously aware of I can get caught in a three week three week rut of zero
progress because I’m doing what I know even when it’s not working like it’s not
working but I’m thinking this under my hair to do it harder right oh I’m doing
something that’s not working I’m gonna do it harder yeah and you know I keep
referring I’ve got a lot of this book that I’m writing right now I just
finished the copy and it’s four but I lit out that I talked about a woodworker
with leadership and how a leader has to know the tools and know how much
pressure to apply with the different tools and how to treat different a
woodworker has to know how to treat different types of wood because like I
have wood at my deck at my house it’s called the eBay would have you’ve heard
of that wood yeah from you okay it’s from Brazil and it has a this either the
same or a higher burn rate or measurement then concrete
so this wood that my deck is made out of it sinks in water if you put this wood
in water it just sinks so when you build it they build um docks with it and when
they build a dock what they have to put flotation in it because otherwise it
just sinks so as a woodworker you have to know okay if I’m working with that
it’s different than what when I’m working with pine well if I take a piece
of pine and I put a saw to it I can get through it and it works so cool I sawed
it I do that to a piece of ebay and it’s not working so what do I do do is a
Harker and so you see people do that with leadership oh I got Dave and echo
and with with echo I say hey echo man you need to tighten it
you need you need to make sure you’re here on time and Eko goes all cool sorry
boss and then Dave’s late and I go hey Dave you need to tighten it up you were
late and he goes dude Jocko thinks you know he’s thinking himself chocolate
thinks I gotta do everything he says watch this and now you show up a little
later just to prove a point and what do I do
you better show up on end see you easier moan that’s it I apply the technique but
I just apply it harder so I have a tendency to do whatever I’m doing and
just just keep trying it because I think well it worked two weeks ago I mean my
primary training partner that rolls it most with is Andy and I’ll try something
on Andy and it won’t work it won’t work it won’t work and it won’t work and I’m
thinking and it takes me like nine days before I go oh yeah and finally I’ll say
hey Andy I’m doing this what are you doing he goes oh I’m just putting my arm
over here and then doesn’t work I’m like cool thanks for letting me know he lets
me learn the hard way you know what the benefit of learning the hard way is if
he just gives it sinks in if he just says oh I like I do that with him I’ll
be doing something and doing something and doing something and it’s working and
if I just tell him the first time hey this is what I did he will forget it
yeah and I’ll be able to keep doing it whereas if I do it for a week and then I
say hey this is what I’m doing man he was doing this little guard pass to me
and it worked four times in one roll that’s effective four times he passed my
guard in one role with the same move with the same move and we got done and I
said okay what was that and it was a trick move it’s a trick move where you
actually kind of fall and you basically the person that’s passing the guard you
you you put a wide grip in their armpit and then you kind of fall down and what
the the person that’s all in the guard what I think what I was thinking was oh
he just fell down I just get up and get on top but I can’t so when I untangled
my legs to get up I can’t move so he’s off he’s automatically passed and it
works and he worked three or four times and he said this is what I did know it’s
like oh man that’s very simple and and then he hasn’t done he literally hasn’t
done it to me since he’s tried it 500 times yeah but I’m not letting do it I’m
not like and the other funny thing is when he when he does it now he falls
down all I have to do is not try and get up and just keep my replace my guard and
it’s fine yeah it’s it’s so those kind of things that’s the kind of thing that
I’ll do is I will stick myself with something that doesn’t work and I’ll
keep trying it and it’s a horrible thing to do and the way that you overcome that
is you gotta be huh you got to be able to detach and then flew the way that I
know with the knee shield right like I got a good knee shield and people will
beat their chest into my knee shield for 45 minutes
I’ve had people trying to pass my guard for 45 minutes because one of them you
may have been without ever saying maybe this approach is not working my defense
and your defense to with like an D or whatever even though I think four times
in one world that’s that’s a lot that’s a lot but when you compare it to like
six months of the same exact thing beating your head against it like that
you know four times one roll to me doesn’t create enough of a like a blip
to be like okay for it to get ingrained first time yeah even though I mean it’s
gonna differ for everybody for sure because the reason it creates like that
big lot like that impactful learning moment is because okay I try this thing
or better yet Jacko’s passing my guard with one step which is how you’d like to
pass my guard yeah one step and he’s passed my garden is so heavy it so
ferocious alright he did that one time maybe he just caught me slipping or not
paying attention okay how can you do it again I was like okay maybe he’s just
going real hard I was kind of tired at that time so he’s just going real hard
and he and he’s heavy so you know it works and you know three four times but
down the road when pretty much all my excuses are exhausted I’m like man
there’s this guard pass that you’re doing has become this huge monster
unbeatable huge monster no if Dave Burke comes in and is
like hey I saw that or even if you come in and be like hey I’m just I’m doing
this this is what I’m doing though here’s how you defeat it then I’m like
oh alright then we roll again and I try and it works that monster now just got
defeated with one little sentence or whatever sure so you’re like oh my gosh
I’ll never forget that sentence ever again that’s the most impactful sentence
I ever had but if it’s like boom yes he passed my garden want for the first time
with this huge step past or whatever and then you say hey you know out you know
after the role or whatever you’re like hey I noticed that I got that guard pass
pretty easy this is how you defend it that guard pass has not become any sort
of monster it’s just one of the many things that you were successful with in
that particular role I’m saying so man it’s crazy how like that one that that’s
how it works but here’s the thing when I said not in your defense where let’s say
I tried do something to you right and let’s say within like three attempts I
get it I pass your guard with this guard pass I’m like oh my gosh there it is
there’s my answer boom I got a good guard pass for a jock that works on
Jekyll I proved it I did it chuckles guard it’s hard to pass you know
whatever next time it may be next week I roll with you it doesn’t work right the
first time oh my god that’s okay I’m just gonna I’m gonna do it because it
obviously works it worked laughs but the here’s the thing you adapted to us I did
but I’m not thinking that I’m thinking how good my garden is guard passes
against taco so I’m like okay let me just do it harder or let me um I’m do
faster yeah that’s what it is you know or let me actually let me do this one
and then I’ll do it meanwhile you not only adapted you know oh this guy’s
gonna be coming with that same guard past therefore I got to be more ready
for it so I’m saying so your overall adapting
to it that I don’t really recognize I just recognize how cool and effective
and how excited I am to do it all I just go harder Oh
today I had a bad day I’ll do it again tomorrow and isn’t it amazing that if
you’re if inside your head you cannot see how obvious is this as we just sit
here and tell the story I mean just as you tell the story you think oh yeah
well obviously the person’s gonna make an adaptation obviously and I and I do
make a you’ve that up you’ve been like you’ll do
something to me and it’ll work and it will work one time yeah and I’ll shut it
down because I’m gonna make a little adaptation I also have you
psychologically where you’ve tried to do that one thing you’ll try and move on me
a lot of times yes you’ll try and move on me 200 times so when it works you
like cool god and then I make an adaptation well it’s not gonna work
anymore cuz I adjusted and that’s the thing like when Andy was doing that
little hand to me that little that little V Y shaped hand in my armpit what
I would have figured out I was almost figured it out but the role ended what I
would have figured out is something he’s doing with this with this hand has got
him past my guard I would’ve just stopped him from getting his hand in
that position but I wouldn’t have known what was going on and so that that would
have I never would have made the the higher level advancement in my knowledge
because I only understood one symptom of the disease not the root cause of it
yeah and so as a good training partner when you get something that works man
you explain it to the person because then they can come up with a counter for
it and then once they come up with a counter for it you come up with a
counter for that for the gown etc and the game begins and continues the game
begins another thing that I think when we’re talking about who’s training
jiu-jitsu mm-hm and to me this is only one of the more solid answers that I’ve
given on the interwebs had a guy say like hey look I don’t like to fight
mm-hmm do I still need to train jiu-jitsu and I
said if you don’t like to fight there’s even more reason for you to train
jiu-jitsu because if you know jiu-jitsu the chances of you having to fight are
less yeah people can attackers potential attackers can sense your confidence
you know a little bit of those and you can’t fake it by the way yeah a lot of
times I mean unless you’re like some award-winning actor and you’re good like
under for real pressure you can’t fake it you ever tried to fake
being relaxed you’re not relaxed at all but you’re trying to fake being relaxed
about you like you’ll overdo it and you’re like you seem even way less
relaxed than you would have been ah yeah it’s yeah you can’t fake it and then on
and additionally when you are legitimately relaxed in whatever way
however if that comes off in a confrontation situation most and this
isn’t anything new but most like attackers or most like aggressive people
or trying to bully or start to start something or whatever they don’t look
for like like major challenges when they do that like I like I like a burglar or
something they’re not looking for the fortified house as a big challenge for
them that’s not what they’re looking they’re not looking for the house with a
giant German Shepherd correct growling to see how good their burglar
skills are like that’s not how it works yes exactly right they look for the big
guy who’s gonna cower down or you know or be scared at the very you know but
yeah and then they’re not scared they’re like gosh I really gotta fight this guy
you know like in high school you know the guy who’s like hold me back bro you
know like that Oh kind of it’s that it’s most attack
yeah like when you know when you realize that the guy really wants to fight
you’re like dang I gotta fight this guy on a team guy friend that was like it
wasn’t me I wasn’t involved in the situation but you know there’s a couple
team guys drinking in the bar type scenario and the one dude was wood was
that guy like the hold me back guy yeah and the other guy is a freakin destroyer
of the human being who who is such a badass guy and and the guy started like
limping off to some other dudes and hold me back I did the whole night back guy
did and and the the badass guy was kind of like well go go fight him and go
ahead and the guy said well you know no go ahead go dude you gonna do and then
the badass guy knocked out the the guy so the the
there we go or the hold me back guys to hold me back guy knocked him out knocked
him out picked him up but he carried him out of the bar it was like a good
situation you know I mean hey you’re gonna run your mouth and then you think
I’m gonna get in a fight with some other people and quote-unquote hold you back
or at least defend and step in and fight and get arrested or whatever no you know
what boom knocked him out and then buddy
carried him out of the bar that guy’s a hero by the way yeah yeah
that’s it that’s a solid move win Dave so your kids are now doing
jiu-jitsu yeah all three of them what is that what does that bring in to the
table for ya I what you were just just talking about actually the answer you
gave that’s something I’ve started to explain to my kids about conflict in
life having an older daughter doesn’t like conflict she yeah I can tell she
sort of naturally cowers away from conflicts you know Rebecca she’s not
she’s not big outspoken she’s not a loud person she doesn’t like public speaking
it’s like anything that makes her uncomfortable
she wants to avoid that she didn’t mind singing the other night she’s she’s
getting better but what happened what and six months
ago would have been different I guarantee by the way I owe you four
dollars you owe your children oh yeah they know that hit you up on that my
older two are old enough to understand that that conflict in life you cannot
avoid it it exists if you are not prepared to respond to it someone’s
going to take advantage of that someone’s gonna put you in that position
and if you will do not have the skills required to be prepared for that you are
at the most risk of having to deal with something you don’t want to deal with
I’ve had that conversation with her and and jujitsu has been the best vehicle I
have to get my back up my son’s 5is understand anything he thinks he’s a
ninja he likes wearing the ghee it’s all good that’s an easy City it’s so easy
he loves it and and it’s all good not a ton of cognitive stuff going on with him
but the older two also their girl they’re small and neither one of them
are predisposed towards aggressive behavior and they think that I’ll just
avoid it I’ll just go through my life meandering around and getting away like
that is not gonna happen the best way you’re gonna be able to avoid conflict
is actually be prepared to handle that conflict my oldest is now at the point
where this is straight out of a conversation we had is that she will
match he will fight with Whitney she will go at it toe-to-toe with her mom
and guess what she loses every single time and what used to be is I have to
explain to not fight with your mom because your mom is gonna beat you in
this this and I’ll and I’ll say hey when you’re when you’re wrong and there’s a
bigger girl in her class and I’ll see it I’m like when she pushes and you push
back what happens it’s like well she eventually just pushes me over like
that’s exactly right when you go force on force with his other girl when you
push as hard as you can to see push sardars he can what happens to you does
end up on the ground every time this girl’s on top of me like so so what did
your coach tell you to do and she says my coach told me when she pushes I
should pull but yeah that and I said when you push against your mom do you
ever win those arguments she’s like no this is so I can actually
start to explain to her using that metaphor of and it’s crazy how much she
understands that now I’ll be honest with you that doesn’t keep her from pushing
hard against it doesn’t there’s some other psychological of course yeah
absolutely and and I don’t have any illusions that she understands it and
what it’s given me now is another language to explain all the conflict in
her life that she doesn’t like and she responds to that I see is completely i
watch it I’m like the worst answer you could have in your worst response
possible you know that was available to you you went with the worst game plan
but I was limited in how I could and I also was limited how I could get through
to her cuz she’s my daughter she doesn’t want to listen to everything I say no
matter how smart or articulate I might think I am she just doesn’t want to
listen to me sometimes so I can actually say hey what did coach David say the
other day when you were rolling with that bigger that there’s a big girl
big girl in that class I mean four she’s 11 she’s a good five six inches and 540
pounds I’m like my daughter what didn’t coach David say about
pushing back against her so for me look there’s a lot of things I
also I want my kids to be prepared to deal with the worst things that happen
in life because I know that if they don’t have that that are more so they’re
more at risk and I’ve said this to her as well said what kind of dad would I be
if you were an adult and you weren’t prepared to deal with this situation
what kind of dad would that make me and she’d say you wouldn’t think you’re a
very good dad like I’m not I’m not a good dad if you’re as an adult can’t be
successful in every situation George is the best thing I’ve got going for me
with that because my words aren’t enough right now I can’t can I there’s enough
resistance that she’s my daughter that things that I say even when they’re
right she doesn’t want to hear it all the time and so she just blocks me out
sometimes and now I got another language that I can use with her and then she
gets to actually use it on the mat too which is the best part about it is that
she has a physical vehicle to do that when I say the jiu-jitsu piece has been
the best thing for my kids in the last six months it’s actually been the best
thing for me as a parent because it’s a place that I never thought I’d take them
it’s something I never thought it introduced them to it and I never
thought I’d give them a way to learn the lessons that I already know in a way
that isn’t just me lecturing my kids and and I also I think was smart enough to
let them figure a little that on their own
I didn’t force them into and say we’re going it’s like hey do you want to you
know do you want to go and I’ve got them to point out that they are asking they
asked if he could go to the jiu-jitsu camp with you a couple weeks ago my man
that’s awesome it’s so good I said this in the last podcast about jiu-jitsu has
made me a better parent I’m dead serious man it’s made me a better parent I can
connect with my kids in ways I couldn’t before using something they understand
and for those of you that underestimate what your kids can learn they are
capable of learning more than I ever thought they were capable of learning
faster than I expected them to as well and that has been a huge revelation for
me as a parent and it helps when I say helps I’m totally understanding in it
that you do jiu-jitsu too so it seems like it’d be almost impossible
right to quote-unquote speak that language if you’re just sort of chilling
and making them go totally if I we work out kind of as a family on Saturday we
do a family work out in the garage and almost without fail at least my oldest
will ask if we can if we can roll a little bit and guess what I say 100% of
the time no matter what’s going on the mat comes off and down and we we train
or I don’t care what it will do it what do you want to do whatever she wants to
do and me being able to communicate with her in the same way I mean how many
things do you think my kid my daughters do that I have done that we can talk
about I never took ballet I’ve never done most
of the sports they do I didn’t do and I don’t really have any interest in those
things either I watch them because they want to do it there’s a real
conversation that we can have and I also for being someone an experienced I can
excite and tell them how I feel the same way that they they feel and I explain to
them and they actually see a little bit of they think I’m Hulk Hogan you know me
there I’m the biggest strongest got my son my son Matthew won’t well echo or
what wall Jaco was at my house of the day said are you stronger than Jocko
and I’m like no he goes really so there’s a little bit of those little
dose of reality of hey the Burke’s we’re not the biggest kids in the block you’re
not gonna be the biggest kid in class you’re not gonna be the strongest kid
there’s a little dose of reality if my kids are small they’re skinny they’re
like me but they actually don’t have to be victims of anything and and I get to
have that conversation not because I’m the biggest strongest guy but because
I’m doing something that they’re doing to that connection man for the people
that are listening to thinking about that the jujitsu piece for me has been
awesome it is awesome for me but it’s mostly the
most powerful part of it is how it connects to my kids because they’re
doing it and that’s the part that I when you ask me a question that’s where I
think the most is the most influential piece when you are talking about the
fact that you have this other metaphor which is which is obviously very very
useful a shared metaphor in a shared language but the other thing that and we
talked about this on the tactics podcast on jockle podcast was the fact that it’s
a real thing like you really feel what it’s like to
have someone out maneuver you like that it’s it’s one thing for Dave to explain
to his daughter that hey someone else can outmaneuver you they can out thank
you and they can beat you and put you in a position where you are no longer you
no longer have an influence over what your fate is yeah you can explain that
to a kid you can explain that to a ten year old an eight year old they’re gonna
grasp some of it but the actual act of someone out maneuvering them and putting
the chokehold on them that they cannot escape that makes you think okay I know
what that feels like I don’t like it and now all your fears explain that that
happens in live life another thing too and again I I want to be humble in the
way I talk about this but you you’ve had a lot of questions about what type of
training kids could should do there’s a Muay Thai class right after jujitsu and
about half the time they stick around for that maybe get part of they like
kick in the bags and stuff you know what’s never happened to any of my three
kids in my tie none of them have ever been punched in the face they’ve never
been hit because they were working on bags they got pads or with it all three
of my kids have been wailed on on the mats they’ve all been Chokin involve an
arm board they’ve all been tapped repeatedly but they’ve actually never
been punched in the face so the first time they’re ever gonna get punched in
the face is when somebody punches them in the face and they can have no and you
talked about this all the time it’s the one martial art where you are in contact
all the time so when I talk about an armbar I talk about a choke they know
what it feels like to be choked they understand that they don’t know what
it’s like to get punched and I can’t really replicate that and I love the
fact that you will avenge yeah yeah you want to be a little bit older but yeah
well they’re there you know I I want them in those striking classes too for
sure the striking classes haven’t don’t replicate anywhere near the same level
of reality like you’re saying it’s a real thing an armbar for a ten-year-old
is still an armbar it hurts her arm and she has to tap to get it to stop there
and she has to think about how she got there a joke for my eight-year-old is
still the choke and the air gets cut off from her throat and she can’t breathe
yeah there isn’t a way to replicate that
reality are doing at that age and jiu-jitsu
allows that you talked about all the time and I’m like okay that makes sense
cognitively I got it but I with them they feel it and see you say it’s a real
thing it has actually a real thing and they understand that and Matt sinks into
them so fast that other things that they do it doesn’t sink in because there’s
just words and there’s no connection to it that’s the other reason why I think
if I was only gonna do one thing with him it’s unquestionably jiu-jitsu if I
only had one thing they’re gonna keep doing more I love that they want to do
it the striking is awesome jiu-jitsu is the thing that is most real to them
because they feel it for real all the time what other sports are they playing Mattson baseball and football you know
for a five-year-old and the girls do dance in gymnastics
really both of them do dance and gymnastics yep
that’s a that’s a good combination I mean gymnastics you dance it I mean you
know by head bowl I had one daughter ballerina one daughter jig a sticks both
um digits and all that but and one of them wrestled but the discipline in
ballet my daughter that did ballet had more injuries from ballet oh sure
then my then my other daughter had from gymnastics and wrestling and jiu-jitsu
ballet is savage its savage like the amount of stress that it puts on a
person’s body when they’re 12 years old it’s an I don’t even know if it’s
necessarily healthy I think now my daughter is a little bit of a psycho and
I think she went a little bit harder when she was 13 14 years old like she
went she went hard harder than she should have
and I think so that has something to do with it but you know like she had like
the stereotypical like some immigrant from her the Russian ballet that was
like this is the way we do things hardcore hardcore and so yeah those are
great combinations because the the and in fact we had a guy come to the gym and
he’s a white belt and he comes in and he’s I train with him and it was Aggie
training this was like two years ago he training this guy’s really
good I mean not you know he’s not like a threat or anything but he’s really
really good for a white belt and I’m like man you know you feel great how
long you been training for a second I’ve been training for nine months and I’m
like and he felt like he’d been training for a long long time
and I said really he said yeah and I said what what did you do gymnastics
because you know you very you know you feel really good and he goes you guys
know I was a I was a dancer I did ballet for I was a professional ballet guy and
he was phenomenal for as long as he had been training he was phenomenal he was
like I’ll come out and say he was like purple belt level low purple bow like he
was that good why because he had that proprioception he knew where his body
was he had flexibility he was strong all those things are awesome and so the
ballet and the gymnastics is the same way I mean the gymnastics is you’re
gonna be strong as hell you’re gonna be flexible you’re gonna have the
incredible proprioception and the thing you’ve got to watch out for in my
opinion in both those sports is you know those are hard sports on the body yeah
gymnastics and and ballet are hard on the body ballet hard on the physique to
guess what you’re gonna get told when you’re a 14 year old ballet girl you
know what you’re gonna get told be skinny here too but straight up and my
daughter is is skinny and for her to be getting told when she was 12 years old
be skinnier was not healthy no I don’t think that’s healthy at all so you got
to be careful of that yeah in my opinion I don’t know what the future holds for
them in any of those sports but something that they’re they’re getting
exposed to now that they we didn’t have an opportunity before as water sports so
they’re both doing lifeguarding oh that’s so good they’re both they’re both
starting surf lessons to get just to get you and I wanted them just come from
only in the water oh yeah well you’re gonna get a little more you bargained
for that once they catch a wave yeah once they catch a wave I came over your
house the other day and I had been surfing with my little daughter and my
son was I actually had a little fans in there but you know the the smile that a
kid gets after they catch a wave on their own that they paddled
– I don’t know that I’ve seen a bigger smile from any of my kids then a good
like the early the first wave the first five waves are something that they catch
that is a very good feeling that is harnessing the power of the mighty ocean
something that you at some point have an intrinsic fear of right I mean sure as a
human being as a little kid you’re like oh
many children if they’re not exposed to it at the right time they can be afraid
of that thing yeah and you should have a healthy respect for the ocean so when
you go in and you go against those waves you paddle in twenty you harness that
power to propel you towards the shore that can put a big smile on the face and
that because that can become an addiction my my son when there are good
waves my son cannot contain himself like it is it’s like a little it’s like he’s
like a little he comes running into the house like if he’s at school and there’s
good waves and you can see the waves as you’re coming to if you as he’s coming
home from school and he can see that there’s good waves he comes in there
like he’s on fire he’s on fire he’s getting his throwing his bookbag down
he’s running to get his wetsuit on he’s running to the board he’s waxing as fast
he can he’s running out there to the ocean it’s I’ve been driving with him
where we do start going by you know up the coast of California we’re going to a
surf contest or something and there’s good waves at some random place along
the way along the 101 and he sees him and it’s like it’s like I have a
freaking dog in the car that can see chicken or steak just lying in the road
and you can’t contain it and that’s so you got to be careful Dave you you say
you want to get them comfortable in the water next thing you know that water is
gonna steer them and I’ll tell you what I had a going and surfing for me how to
had a had may have had the most profound influence on my entire life because what
happened was I was a kid there was a lifeguard up in Maine
who was a great guy his name is Mark Seeley and he was a surfer and he was a
damn good surfer and when I was 10 years old he came to my apartment one day and
said hey hey Jacque I want to teach you how to surf now and so he handed me a
surfboard he went over the basics with me and I went out and caught a wave and
at that point I knew that that was something I was going to be doing for
the rest of my life so then there’s another big thing in my life that I
wanted to do which was I wanted to be you know some kind of soldier some kind
of commando so from from being in the water so I continued to surf from h10
and on and and also a surfing in Maine where the waters cold
and it’s dark and it’s there’s there can be ice there can be snow on the beach as
you’re going surfing I mean it’s that it’s that’s the scenario so when it came
time for me to join the military and I looked at the various service branches
and the commando Special Operations units in the various service branches
there was one that was oriented in the water a and there was one that was you
could either be stationed in San Diego California or Virginia Beach now when I
was a when I was a 15 16 17 year old kid about to join the military California to
me it was something that it was like it was it was like saying hey we’re gonna
go to Mars now like the fact that I could join the military and go to
California this far away place where they had waves and and the Pacific Ocean
and all these different surfer because I read Surfer magazine I’d see all these
you know I’d see the Sunset Cliffs the Malibu the the rink on like yeah those
are things I read about those things but they seemed it’s it’s pictures in a
magazine when you’re a little kid there was no internet I had a couple surf
movies you know on the VCR so that guy teaching me how to surf made me decide
that the the special operations unit I wanted to go into was the SEAL Teams and
showed up at the SEAL Teams and guess what the biggest the things that
get people to quit the most in the SEAL Teams is the cold water and the end the
water evolutions themselves and since I had grown up surfing in Maine cold water
I got out to californee I was like 1 Series you think this is cold
there’s no ice on the beach so that so yeah the the water sports for kids are
awesome and you know obviously as I was sitting here thinking about you know we
we talk about jiu-jitsu all the time I know for a fact that other disciplines
and other sports people find the same the same sort of outlets and connections
with their kids so I’m not trying to say that it doesn’t exist anywhere else and
that if you if you hey if you play you know basketball with your kid if you
play baseball with your kid like those are all awesome those are all awesome
and you can make those connections and you can learn those life lessons I mean
there’s obviously there’s entire books that are based on the life lessons that
you learn from football the life lessons that you learn from baseball or whatever
whatever sport so those are all there I will say this though there is no not
baseball not football no other sport gives you that pragmatic skill that you
can actually apply in a worst-case scenario in your life I’ll add one thing
to that in what I’ve seen as a parent because I don’t have a strong connection
I watch them dance I watch them do gymnastics I like watching that and it’s
really from my oldest one the other two I don’t think have quite gotten to that
place when my oldest comes back from training any other I had a dance go fine
how was Jeanette when she comes back from jiu-jitsu and something is she
wants to talk to me about it and she is she goes hey remember the tall girl from
last weekend her there she goes I almost got her today she’s so she’s so much
more fired up about being successful in that and look I’m not I’m not trying to
force another I’m playing a long a strategic game in my mind of what what’s
best for her but I can tell when she’s in the game not just because because
she’s trying to make me happy when she is doing something well
successful in that she’s more fired up about that than anything she’s ever been
and so that actually makes it easy for me because she feels how good it feels
to do well in something like that and I as a parent take a lot of
satisfaction when my kid comes back she goes we did king of the hill today I
came in second yeah and and it’s and she’s super fired up and she’s also
thinking like I think I can beat this girl and and she’s not like that with
anything else I don’t know what she’s gonna be like was surfing but I love the
idea that she is naturally connected to wanting to be successful in something
that when she it makes her genuinely happy about something’s like that you
know I think the trick is apparent as you expose your kids there’s many things
see which way they go again a force him in another direction and I’m not trying
to compete with my wife maybe but that’s how she feels about
jiu-jitsu when she comes back and and we talked about that and she’s genuinely
engaged on that and wants to get better at it and she’s not like that with other
things yeah and that’s one thing that you know you may hear this you may hear
people talking about it and how good is it like just hearing Dave talk about how
it’s the number one thing you do with your kids right that’s gonna make any
parents at least consider it it’s gonna make some parents go okay
that’s it we’re doing the jiu-jitsu thing and they’re gonna try and force it
down your kids throats and you have to be very careful with it just like you
have to be careful with anything else and I think from a leadership family
leadership perspective if you want it because because I screwed this up with
my kids with my kids it was you are doing jiu-jitsu this is the way it is
especially with my daughters and the the the mistake or the advice that I would
give is number one you don’t force them into it number two and this is a
leadership lesson that we teach over and over and over and over again is what you
do is you explain to them why it is important for them to do this and I
think when I would explain why it would be out of
it would be like in extremis explanation it’d be like cuz you gotta because you
got to be able to defend yourself that’s not the time to do it I already blew it
as a leader so what you have to do is early on you do the reverse thing well
you says hey there’s this is like one of the best things you can learn and here’s
why you haven’t even taken them to class yet you just get it in their head that
that’s what they want to learn and one and I will tell you one more little
parenting slash leadership tidbit the the things that stick the most and embed
the deepest are the things that you applied with the least amount of
pressure and that you planted the seed and you just nourished it and let it
grow if you do that as a leader if you do that as a parent those are the things
that stick I am actually surprised with some of the habits and some of the
personality traits that my kids have that I know where they got them from but
the ones that embedded the deepest are the ones that I basically led through
example I showed them but I didn’t try and apply with too much pressure because
when you apply with pressure it’s like you get it to stick I was talking to I
was talking to John Dudley who’s my archery coach I guess if that’s a word
anyways friend of mine who’s helping me with archery and he was talking about
the creation you have to build arrows to do our jury with and there’s some it
takes it takes a little while because one of the things that you’ve got to do
is you’ve got a you’ve got a epoxy some of the parts together and for one
particular part when you epoxy it together you need to take you need to
use epoxy that takes about 24 hours to dry and he says there’s some people they
want to speed up the process so they use an epoxy that takes 30 minutes to dry
and when you use an epoxy that takes 30 minutes to dry guess what it’s more
brittle that’s the way it is so you don’t end up with the same adhesion so
when you try and rush and force things you
don’t get the same adhesion to the brain whether it’s people that you’re trying
to teach whether it’s people that you’re trying to lead or whether it’s your own
kids the more the this the more you try and force that and speed it up the less
the less long-term impact you’re gonna have so be careful with that yeah with
that I think that’s a good spot to hold it up echo anything else and then Dave
anything else no all right well that’s all we got for today if you want to
carry on this conversation on social media echo is adequate Charles Dave is
that David art Burke I’m at Jocko willing if you need me gear for
jiu-jitsu or for life you go to origin main comm if you want to support this
podcast you can go to JA clothes store calm and I have another podcast which is
called Jocko podcast and you can listen to that one too anyways that’s all we
got for now stay grounded

24 thoughts on “Grounded Podcast #4 w/ Dave Berke and Echo Charles: Are you Prepared? Can you Adapt?

  1. Wait till Dave's daughter comes home and not only beats the big girl, she beats some of the boys. That's when they really get excited.

  2. Jocko. Can you please get Sergeant First Class, Sammy L. Davis, Medal of Honor (Vietnam) on the show. Please please please youtube this guys citation. Holy mother of god it’s incredible. He’s gotta be on your show, dude is an absolute hoot too. He’s also reported to be the guy behind of Forrest Gump. No I’m not joking lol.

  3. Rioting and violence in the streets is in the works for approval now, in an additional escalation against torturers. (won't mention specifics, just learn to insult the you know whose better when your not working on a public reputation)

  4. Morning routine – rise 4:00AM,piss, weigh in, brush teeth, rinse face, coffee, walk to gym, strength, cardio, abbs, shower, walk home .

    The hardest part is sneaking out of bed and not waking the wife or baby . Any tips

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